Episode 100 - How Healing Our View Of God Transforms Our Relationships

A milestone worth pausing for: 100 episodes into God Attachment Healing, we trace the journey from a simple idea—created to connect—to a grounded framework for healing shame, reshaping identity, and building secure attachment with God and others. I walk you through the show’s evolution, the theology that anchors it, and the clinical insights that keep it practical, with favorite clips that still spark conviction and hope.

Here are the episodes referenced for you to tune in to them:

Episode 1: My Heart Behind the Podcast 

Episode 6: Insights on the Effects of Shame in Relationships 

Episode 17: Should Christians Struggle with Mental Health? 

Episode 20: How Our Thinking and Emotions Were Affected by the Fall 

Episode 25: Welcome to the Genesis of Shame Podcast 

We dig into why shame whispers I am not enough and how those messages sabotage closeness. You’ll hear how a few safe, consistent relationships can become a laboratory for trust, turning defense into wise pursuit. We talk candidly about mental health in the church—why anxiety or depression doesn’t mean you’re far from God, and how dependence, community, and good care can deepen your spiritual life. Along the way, I share the stats behind reaching 100 episodes, audience trends around attachment and shame, and why I’m doubling down on research, interviews, and video to serve you better.

If you’ve been part of this community from the start or you’re just finding it now, the heart remains the same: stay faithful to Scripture, honor the gospel, and offer tools that help you love God and people with courage. Season five will highlight attachment styles, identity in Christ, and the small steps that make vulnerability sustainable. Press play, share this with someone who needs a nudge toward safe connection, and subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next. Your questions shape the show—send them my way, leave a review, and let’s keep growing together.

Chapters

• 0:06 Milestone And Season Five Vision
• 1:45 Mapping The Podcast’s Evolution
• 3:25 Identity, Self Attachment, And God
• 5:11 Research, Dissertation, And Gratitude
• 8:11 Guarding Theology And Guest Selection
• 10:28 Community Feedback And Future Interviews
• 12:18 By The Numbers: Reaching 100 Episodes
• 15:20 Audience Trends And Format Changes
• 17:41 Instagram, Video Plans, And Growth
• 19:17 Clip: The Heart Behind Episode One
• 22:00 Walls, Risk, And Choosing Safe People
• 25:33 Clip: Original Sin, Fear, And Shame
• 28:12 Shame’s I Am Messages And Identity
• 32:45 Clip: Should Christians Struggle With Mental Health
• 37:05 Dependence On God Through Suffering
• 41:15 Clip: Defining Shame With Dr. Thomas
• 44:30 From Created To Connect To Genesis Of Shame
• 47:30 Vulnerability, Boundaries, And Trusted Circles
• 51:00 Tying It Together: God Attachment Healing
• 52:40 Thanks, Next Steps, And Where To Follow

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:05

Alright everyone, we are here, episode 100 of the God Attachment Healing Podcast. Um, as you guys know, if you've been following the podcast, we actually started or actually started with the Create It to Connect podcast, which then became the Genesis of Shame podcast. And eventually I landed on God Attachment Healing Podcast. So it's been really exciting to see where the podcast is today. Um, I'm gonna share a couple of stats with you guys in a little bit, just as a way to celebrate this 100th episode and just show you some data that I've been able to uh find. And I'm excited, like I I never expected uh to get here, although this was one of my goals when I first started the podcast, was to get to at least episode 100 and then decide what to do after that. You know, if to um continue to do psychoeducation as I've been doing, maybe change it up a bit, which is something that I plan to do in the coming season. This will be actually season five. So I was looking through the podcast, through each of the episodes and the different uh the early podcasts that started, and I realized that I didn't space them out evenly as I wanted to. Um, but if I look back through it, it could be separate into four seasons, and then this would be season five, uh, starting at episode 100. So I think that's a good way to kind of organize the podcast. And yeah, moving forward, uh, what this is gonna look like is going to be different than what you've seen. And I'm gonna start that next week or the week after that, because I may do two of these episodes where I want to go over some of the previous episodes that were very informative, uh popular, that the you guys as listeners enjoyed, which have the most downloads. Actually, there's a lot where you guys were very interested in just the different attachment styles. So I am going to be focusing on that in um the next couple of episodes. So, yeah, all of that ties into obviously our God attachment. Uh, I actually created um somewhat of a course module, which I'm testing out right now, which focuses on attachment with your identity. Uh, so you as an individual, what is your attachment to self? And there is such a thing of attachment to yourself, your experiences, and and how you um have come to understand yourself in the context of relationships, uh, relationship with other people and relationship with God. So that's the other two parts of it. Where after that, you now we then look to understand your relationship with other people, and then lastly, in your relationship with God. So all of those three are intertwined because obviously your relationship with God will influence your relationship with other people and even how you understand yourself. So you'll see a lot of overlap between the different topics, which is what I'm hoping to accomplish. Um, a lot more research. Uh, you know, I was hoping that by today I would have defended my dissertation. That is not the case yet, but I have a date, and it should be happening in the next couple of weeks. Um, actually, I do have the date, and uh, I just I kind of want to just keep it a surprise. So I will open up one of the episodes with um guys, welcome to the show. It is Dr. Landa, I defend it, and so on. So uh yeah, I will I will leave that as a little cliffhanger for you guys. But I do just want to say thank you for tuning into the episode. If you have been a faithful listener and have enjoyed these episodes, again, thank you. I don't know who tunes in. Uh, sometimes I get some comments from friends and they say, Hey, I listened to this episode, and it was really powerful and it helped me do this and that. And um, I really appreciate that. But for the most part, um, I don't hear about it, and that's okay. I mean, it just kind of comes with the territory. It is just nice to hear um that it is impacting people because again, I I just never know. I never know what topics people are interested in. I mean, I get a feel um in quick Google search and uh trying to see what people are responding to. Like I said, most of you guys really like the ones on attachment. Um, some really popular ones were on shame and some interviews, yeah. Some some topics um in which you enjoyed people that I was interviewing. So, all those are good things. So I'll still continue to interview people. I actually have a good list of people that I'm reaching out to in order to continue these interviews, and um, and here's uh another big thing. I haven't done this as much, but I will be reaching out to other podcasts, Christian podcasts, and be on their shows and hopefully be able to share the content there, continue to grow the podcast here, and see where the Lord takes us. I do enjoy doing this, it's it's one, it's kind of a creative outlet for me, as well as deepening, deepening my understanding of attachment and of the issues that you know Christians are encountering, because this is a space that people are interested in. They want to know about God. I want to give them a gospel-centered version of that, and um, which is the only version, right? To know the gospel, know God through Christ. So I want to do that. And I want to also give a clinical approach as well, um, because I think those are some of the things that God has equipped me with to be able to convey to you as the audience so that you can't see how all of these things tie together, right? Um, and as always, my my goal with the podcast is to remain um true to scripture, to remain true to the gospel, and to not waver on on those on those things. Um, interestingly, I've had people reach out who are in the spiritual podcast topic area or arena, and they want to come on the show. And and I have I've had to turn a lot of those um interviews down because it just doesn't line up with with the vision of the podcast. Um, so though I think I would have some interesting conversations and maybe very humorous in in a lot of ways, um, I just I don't feel comfortable doing those types of episodes. Now, this doesn't mean that everyone that I have on, I agree with fully theologically, right? I have had people on that I don't have full agreement in our theological views, but I think that's part of this process is how can we talk about these issues um and see how our faith is intertwined with how we understand these these different topics. Um, obviously, because I navigate the conversation, I'm always trying to uh not lead it, but I try to have a conversation where the gospel is is presented or where uh the Bible is defended or the Bible is also presented. And and where my um how my faith, personal walk with Christ, is also influences those topics. So that's the benefit of being able to host your own podcast, is you can do basically whatever you want and have the conversations that you want. So um that has been very freeing. Um, but yeah, as you continue to listen, um I will provide some announcements when I'm um joining in on other podcasts so you can tune into those as well. And uh yeah, so again, guys, if this is if if you have been listening to a podcast for um whatever amount of time and you've enjoyed it, thank you. I I would ask that you continue to share the episodes, uh, to listen to them and to send me questions. I like I love answering questions, I really do. Uh I don't claim to have the answers to all of the questions, but I like to dig for answers to them because they may be questions I've asked before, or there may be something in the research that shows a different perspective on how we can understand those questions that you have. Um and it just keeps me keeps me motivated, keeps me sharp because you know, as the audience, you do have the freedom to critique the podcast and say I may be missing something, right? As a teacher, I like to find ways to convey information in a way that is understandable and applicable. Um, so I want to take in your feedback and use it, right? And and apply it to the podcast in the best way that I can. Um, obviously, I won't be able to listen to all the feedback, but any feedback can be can be helpful. All right. Well, that is just kind of the intro here. Um, and now as we start, I get I wanted to do something a little special, a little bit different. And before I introduce my favorite clips, which I mentioned or talked about last time that I was going to do, let me just share with you a couple of stats here so you kind of know the momentous occasion here, which again I'm excited about. Uh it's it's cool to see your investment of time, energy, resources pay off in a way, right? But this is more of a personal, um, like I said, it's a creative outlet for me, and I think the Lord has used it to teach me a lot of different things and to learn from people that I've interviewed. But because it's the 100th episode, I started to wonder, Mike, how many, I wonder how many podcasts have made it to a hundred episodes. I mean, I've had conversations with friends, and they said, you know what, the podcast space, it's too, it's too over uh overpopulated, like there's too many podcasts, it's easy to get lost in them. And the reality is that there are a lot of podcasts, but it's nothing compared to what you may think regarding, you know, videos and things on YouTube and so on. But podcasts themselves, um, here's the numbers that we're looking at. Okay, as of September 2025, so a month, two months ago, there are 4.52 million podcasts worldwide. That is that is a lot of podcasts, right? Now, if we dig in a little bit deeper, here's the the significance of reaching 100 episodes. So I became curious. I was like, okay, so out of all of these podcasts, how many of them have reached a hundred episodes? And that number, so it's only a small, small minority, roughly four to six percent of podcasts ever reach a hundred episodes. So I'm within that four to six percent that has reached the hundred episodes. So that's exciting, right? Again, it gets it shows my um dedication to the podcast, um, even though it's been on and off for a couple of years. You know, there were some times where I had to take long breaks for school, for other uh personal matters. And um, yeah, so still continuing and now reaching that hundred episode is is really it's it's very fulfilling, I guess is the way to say it. So because four to six percent of podcasts ever reaching a hundred episodes, that's 271,000 podcasts that have reached that number, right? So when you look at how many there actually are 4.52 million, and you see how many have reached 100 episodes, I mean it's pretty significant. So that is exciting to see. Um, and then after this episode, I will have hit 30,000 podcast downloads. So that's pretty cool. Again, if I compare myself to other podcasts, some are gonna have more, some are gonna have less. But for me, for the niche podcast that this is, because it focuses on God attachment, um, I think 30,000 at this point, I think that's pretty good. Um, and again, there's others who are doing very well. Actually, one that I'm uh gonna do an interview, um, I'm gonna be on her podcast, and she's like in the top two, two to five percent of podcasts. So that's gonna be that's pretty significant as well. So you just learn to appreciate this from other people who are also podcasting. Um, another stat here in the United States alone, there are around 158 million people or 55% of the population that listen to podcasts. And this actually comes by surprise with YouTube being the most preferred platform to tune in, because YouTube is a is, you know, it's a video format. Um, but you would think that people don't want to see other people talk, but I guess I guess they do, you know, they want to see the video, they want to see the expressions, and they want to see the mannerisms and the face, right? To to the voice that they're listening to. Um, so it is more work, and it is something that I plan to do moving forward, where I'll include the videos up on YouTube. And uh again, I think that'll be a huge benefit and maybe another another area to where the podcast can grow. So, yeah. On average, podcast fans spend about seven hours a week listening to episodes. Each episode usually lasts between 20 to 40 minutes. That actually, I mean, it's it makes sense to me because you know we only have so much time to um to listen to podcasts. A lot of people listen to them on their way to work, so that's about 20 to 30 minutes, right? So it makes sense. Mine are usually between 40 to 60. So I I may cut it down a little bit. I don't know. I I think as long as I have a good flow, my interviews make sense to go 40 to 60 because I usually have more questions and like to expand on the topic, go a little bit deeper. Uh, the ones that I do by myself, I think those I can make them within 30 to 40 minutes. Um, so we'll see how that goes. But yeah, uh in the US, 66% of people aged 12 to 34 listen to podcasts monthly. That's pretty interesting. 61% of adults age 35 to 54 also listen to podcasts monthly, while 38% of those age 55 and older tune in regularly. So yeah, the good the demographic seems to be from 12 to 54. Um, my audience, both on um in all the podcast platforms and my social media, so specifically on God Attachment Healing. So, by the way, if you haven't gone to my Instagram page to follow there, that's God attachment healing on Instagram, go there um and follow. That's where I show show the little clips of um of each of these uh of each of these podcast episodes. And again, there's small ways of interacting and engaging with the content and its video format, it's a little bit more creative. So yeah, go to God Attachment Healing on Instagram, follow there, and um that should be that should give you some insight into some of the other things that I'm doing. All right, well, that's basically all I wanted to share regarding the statistics, and now we can jump into some of my favorite clips from the podcast. So I'm gonna go way, way back, and I have to start with episode one, right? Episode one is basically what started this. Um, again, like I said, when I first started the podcast, it was created to connect, and the idea behind it was okay, it was the concept came from understanding that we were made in the image of God, and being made in the image of God means that we're made for community because God with Himself is a community, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. So that was kind of where the concept came from that we were created to be in community. So even coming up with the name, it's very basic, very simple, but you know, that's what I had at the time, and I thought it was just straightforward, and um, that's what it was. So uh I want to choose, or I chose one of these clips from the episode, and I will show it now, and then I'll give some comments on it. All right, so this is from episode one, the heart behind the podcast. There's a community even with this podcast that we're going to build, right? There's gonna be a lot of people who uh hopefully will tune in and be able to take some nuggets of wisdom from uh from the podcast and be able to apply this uh these principles to their lives, and this will be a community in and of itself. So uh that's essentially what I'm hoping and I'm looking for in the big picture is that this is a podcast that connects people, not just through this podcast community, but also that you wherever you are in your own in your circle of influence, that you're able to develop these these deep, meaningful connections, but first focusing on your relationship with God. And all right. So, yeah, I mean I was basically talking about creating this community of people who were going to understand what it means to connect with God and hopefully influence um our understanding of who God is and how we can find different ways to to connect with each other. Um, again, that was the that was from the first episode. And just, I mean, as I've been listening to it, just reflecting back on how I started, I was super nervous. I didn't I was very conscious of how my voice sounded, and it's very interesting now how I don't think about it twice anymore. Um, even being on camera, it was very, very difficult. I think I didn't even have uh video when I first started, it was really just speaking into the mic. And um, yeah, so it really takes me back again. That was about five, six years ago, and uh yeah, I don't know if you can tell the difference if by hearing the voice, if you can tell the actual difference between my voice then and now. But yeah, definitely a uh different comfort level now than I did at that time. So yeah, so I just wanted to share that just because it was one of those introductory clips of what the podcast was going to be. But along in that same episode, I also took some time where, okay, so what what is this um what makes it difficult for us to connect, right? And I touch on that here and I'll expand on it a little bit, but basically, uh when you've been hurt in relationships, it makes you fearful of wanting to make new connections. So I talk about that a little bit here, and I'll expand on that after after this clip. Basically, what happens is that we put up these walls, and a lot of us are more defensive when it comes to relationships instead of offensive. We're not willing to risk being hurt to connect with people, and that's just kind of one of the risks that that we need to take. If you want to connect genuinely with others, you have to risk being hurt as time progresses that you start to allow yourself to be more open with people, and when you become open with people, you open yourself up to potentially being hurt. Alright, so again, this was this was one of those things where I was talking about how after we get hurt, we start to be in protective mode, right? We're we're guarding ourselves every time now that we interact with people as we start to think that they have something that they want from us, that they have the great potential to hurt us, which obviously coming from a hurt relationship, you're gonna start to be more guarded about that. And initially it's okay, right? I mean, you should be protective in a way after being hurt by someone that you love, by someone that you care about. But what has happened is that that then becomes a pattern which limits your ability to connect with people moving forward. And so we stop engaging people and trying to identify safe, secure people, godly people that we can actually develop close relationships with again, because our community really shapes who we are. And especially as Christians, uh, the people that you surround yourself with, what they talk about, what they think, how they view God, how they relate to God, those things influence us. And that aspect of being defensive is more about okay, I'm gonna guard myself, I'm gonna protect myself. So, yeah, no one's gonna hurt you if you're in that defensive mode, but at the same time, you also won't be able to develop intimacy with people that can bless your life. And we need to do that. So being on the offense is being able to look out into your community, into your family, your Christian family, and see, okay, who who's walking with Jesus? Who is following him in such a way that I want to emulate that in my own life? How do I how do I do that? Right. And if you are only defensive, then you're not gonna be able to seek that out because again, you're just gonna be sitting back and and waiting for things to happen, and waiting maybe even for people to come to you, which doesn't always happen, right? We do have people who may come to you and may help you uh feel like you can trust them again, but they may not. So, again, if you're defensive, you're just gonna have a passive role in your own faith, you know, and in your journey. So, offensive is really about um this idea of if I could use a basketball analogy, is that you're gonna take shots, right? You're not gonna make every single shot, but you still got to keep shooting to score points. In this case, when we talk about our faith and being on the offense, it's that you have to be willing to take those shots in getting to know people, in introducing yourself, and inviting people over to your house, and inviting others to be a part of your own community, of your family. And what happens is that it does put you in a vulnerable spot, right? It puts you in a position where people now look at you and they have the freedom to evaluate your life and make judgments about it. Now, I know some of you listening may say, well, you know, as Christians, we shouldn't make judgments, but the reality is, guys, that we just do. When we're interacting with people, and you know, especially when they're believers, we want to see a cohesive message between their actions and what they're saying. And when we see that match up, we we have this renewed faith because we're encouraged by seeing people walking the walk and talking the talk, right? That they are really living for the Lord and that you can see it in how they treat others and how they treat the church and how they view God, how they relate to God, you start to see that, right? So uh being on the offense means that you are willing to take the risk of potentially being hurt in order to find people who you can develop a sense of closeness and intimacy with, because that is beneficial for your walk with Christ. And it is also beneficial for you to continue to grow because everyone thinks that they're doing good when they're by themselves. Um, and sometimes you need other people in your life to really um show you or tell you, hey, you know what? Uh I noticed this. Um, how are you doing? Like, how's your walk with the Lord? Um, and there can be this point of over-spiritualizing this where um people may want to just sound spiritual and wanting to invest in your life in some way, shape, or form. Um, but a lot of this has to do with developing the relationship first. Oftentimes when I've invested in people and you have a friendship with them, you you're more willing to share um some thoughts, right? You're willing to kind of hold up the mirror for them, as it says in James, where you they can look at their lives and see, am I living the way that God has called me to live? Right. And we need that. We need that as brothers and sisters in Christ. So, yeah, you need to be willing to risk that in order to um have closeness and intimacy in your relationships with people. So, yeah, that was again, that was from episode one. So that's when I first started. Um uh next one that I wanted to share, this is episode 20. This was with one of my mentors. We're actually still friends today. Um, I still see him as my professor, as my mentor. He was a very key figure in my life, and he has invested in me uh as a person, as a friend, as a brother in Christ. And I just am eternally grateful for him. It's Dr. Kevin Corsini, and um, he knows this. I tell him this all the time whenever we meet, um, of how much of a key role he played in my professional development, but also in my Christian walk with God. And um, yeah, he's just a very, a very meaningful special person in my life. And this was one of the conversations that we had of how our emotions affect our relationship with God. So I'll let you tune into this and then I'll give some some thoughts.

SPEAKER_01: 26:25

Original sin creates a separation from God. It's a it's a it's a it's a gap that's created in that relationship, and not only between mankind and God, but also there's a rift torn in that fabric of community and intimacy between the man and the woman as well. And we see introduced right at the at the origin of the fall, and the introduction of shame. What is one of the first things they do? They cover themselves. Uh they're covering themselves and hiding themselves with the figlies from each other, right? I mean they're they're hiding, they're covering each other in shame from each other and also from God. And then there's also hiding. There's hiding, there's covering, and we see the introduction of fear and the introduction of shame, which completely undermine community and intimacy and relationship.

SPEAKER_00: 27:22

Right. So hearing that again, it's it's it was one of those those moments where we were discussing, you know, how do we get here? How do we get to this place of feeling disconnected from each other? And, you know, he talks about original sin. He talks about how that created this rift between us and God, and between even between us with each other, and between Adam and Eve at that time. And that has been the pattern ever since is that there are always things that are getting in the way of our relationship with God, things that Satan uses to distract us, to move us in a different direction, to be disobedient. There are always things that can be barriers to developing intimacy and closeness with each other and with God. And yeah, the the idea there was how when we one of the most prominent emotions that we feel in relationships is shame. And that shame can stem from a lot of different things, right? It's this these I am messages. I am bad, I am a horrible person, I am uh, you know, wicked and all these things. And you know, there's there's a lot of that kind of talk that doesn't stem from scripture. That when we talk about shame, it's really about how you feel when you're around people that you care about and how they have shaped your view of yourself, right? So typically someone who has shame has a high view of others and a negative view of self. And what I mean by that is that other people are seen as good. Wow, that person, that Christian, they do so many good things, and this person over here, they do so many great things for the Lord, and and this person over here, they're not, you know, maybe they're not walking with the Lord, but they have these great qualities, great characteristics, and you know, I wish I had that, right? There's this constant comparison with other people, and that brings about shame. Like there's something wrong with me, right? And that's kind of the message of shame is that there I'm there's something wrong with me, and it's an internalized shame, which uh which means that we see ourselves as less than. Uh, when we're made in the image of God, that is how we were made, we were made in the image of God, made for community with each other and with Him. And when we start to evaluate our lives and we see that there's disconnect and uh rifts and problems in our relationships, we start to feel that am I doing something wrong? Or There's something wrong with me. That's why these people can't get close to me or they don't want me around them. And because of that, the Lord also probably doesn't want to be around me because I'm just a evil, sinful person. Right. So they have part of the equation correct, where you know, with without God, who are we? Right. So there's this identity. This is why identity is such an important part of the Christian walk. You know, identity formation starts to happen within the early teen years up into adulthood. And that's why when you look at teenagers, they're always testing different waters or different groups to see where they fit, right? And they make that their identity. So when we move into adulthood, all of those experiences and all of the messages that our parents have communicated to us start to shape how we view ourselves in relation to God, in relation to others. So this idea of shame causes me to hide myself, to not be open, to not be vulnerable. Because if people really knew who I was, then they would not want anything to do with me. God knows who I really am. So I know he doesn't want anything to do with me. Like that's the thinking that they that they have is that because God knows who I am, he must not really love me. He must not really want me. And obviously that is contrary to what scripture teaches, that God loves us and God loves us so much that he sent his only begotten son that he for him to die on the cross for us so that we can have a relationship with him. Right. So he does love us, and he's demonstrated that not just through his son Jesus, but also through various experiences in our lives where we feel like maybe we didn't deserve something that was good. God is still good and he still gives good to his children. Right. So again, this idea of shame causes us to pull back and to hide and to cover ourselves and not be vulnerable. Again, kind of going back to the first episode where when we've been hurt, we don't take the risk to continue to know people and seek out connection with others, with other believers. So that can be very damaging, right? So if we're if we don't feel close to other people, it's gonna be hard for us to think that we can be close to God because the physical evidence of connecting with others, if we don't see that in our lives, it's hard to see it in a relationship with God. Now, I can go on another rant about compensation model and correspondence model, which I've talked talked about before. Um, but basically I'll just give a brief overview is that when we grew up in a shame-filled home with parents who are non-believers or who were rigid, critical, and harsh, judgmental, um, it's hard to see God as caring, loving, and kind, right? But let's say you did grow up in that home. And then you as an adult, then you come to know the Lord, or you came to you came to know the Lord later on in life, and then you start to see God differently because all the things that you're reading about him in scripture are good things that you didn't experience as a child. So you read these things and you start to experience God differently, and you're like, Lord, uh, you know, I never had this before. This is amazing. Like the way that you love me and accept me and and care for me is I've never had before. And then the Lord obviously uses personal relationship with you, uses his word, uses prayer, but then he also uses community, right? People in the church, be leaders, other brothers and sisters in Christ, who are able to see a need that you have in your life and are able to come alongside you and journey with you and show you the love of God in a different way. All right. So God uses people in our lives to be able to meet these needs that we have. Um, so yeah, so one of the things I loved about that episode is that um Dr. Gorsini has a background in theology, has a background in counseling. Um and and that was that was a great conversation because he talked about how the our understanding of God and our understanding of sin shapes how we choose to connect with God and connect with others. So um, not only that, again, it was one of my favorites just because I it was I enjoyed having that conversation with uh with Dr. Gorsini. It was a good conversation, and we always have great conversations too. Um, so yeah, so I have two more here. And let's go ahead and listen to this one. This one is should Christians struggle with mental health? So I wanted to select this one because this is a question that a lot of Christians have is well, if you're a Christian, why are you struggling with mental health issues? That shouldn't be a problem. So I discuss a little bit on this episode um why that's okay, and even talk a little bit about a personal experience um that I had. So we'll tune in to this right here. Like I said, for me, even when I was experiencing anxiety and depression, I feel closer to God, even though I was struggling with that. Right? Uh for me the question was, Lord, why why am I dealing with this? I want to be close to you, I want to do what's right, I want to follow you, but I just hate feeling this way. Right. So oftentimes we'll associate someone dealing with mental illness and not having a good relationship with God. And I don't think that that's true. Right? You can actually, even within that painful situation or within that mental illness, you can't even press into God a little bit more because you are fully dependent on Him. You're no longer dependent on yourself and seeing how you can work your way through this and find different ways to um get healthier, right? Because we need God to build that spiritual aspect of our lives. All right. So being a young adult, young teenager, uh moving into adulthood, um after my parents' divorce, I started experiencing a lot of anxiety and depression that led into later years as well. Um, but then you know, when I started moving more into being others focused, it was a distraction initially, but then eventually it just became a habit of it when you're doing things for other people. I think God God ingrained this um natural inclination for us that when we do good for others, we feel good about our ourselves because you are being in community and you're meeting the needs of others, which, you know, interestingly enough, meets the need that we have of carrying out the great commission in a sense. So if we're sharing the gospel, if we're meeting needs for other people, it provides opportunity for that. But more than that, it creates this intimate connection with other people because you're meeting a need and people appreciate that, right? Um, so when I was struggling with those things, what I notice is that you know, I struggle with some shame about why am I dealing with this as a Christian? I've learned my whole life that if I'm a Christian, that I shouldn't be experiencing these things. Like that's what I was taught. That I should, I may not be praying enough, uh, I might not be studying scripture enough, um, I'm doing something wrong. And I was doing all the things that I was being told, but there was something about it that continued to actually uh grow the shame. And I was confused by that. So I thought to myself, I'm doing something wrong. There's something wrong with me. Lord, what's going on? I I, you know, I have these questions, you know, I know I shouldn't be feeling this way. So I started to shove it down and and think to myself, well, there's, you know, I'm not experiencing this anymore. Maybe it's just, it's just, it's gonna pass, was my thinking. And when I started to realize that, no, it was actually through that that I drew closer to the Lord because I realized that he was the only one that really understood what I was experiencing and why I was experiencing. Now, he did provide people in my life who were understanding of, hey, you know what, it makes sense why you'd be anxious and depressed, right? Um, and they were just there listening to me and just heard me out. And I just shared kind of my heart where I was feeling what I was feeling, um, what I was thinking. And yeah, it was a very, a very dark place to be in. And we've all had those experiences where, you know, we were in a place that we didn't want to be in in our relationship with the Lord. So it created a lot of confusion for me and created a lot of shame. And I remember every time that I would feel that way or I would sin against God in some way, shape, or form, I would feel embarrassed to be around uh the pastors, the leaders, because I feel like they would know uh what I've done and that they would ask me about it, and I would have to share, and that would create even more shame and so on. And again, what I realized was that the way that change would actually happen is be there being space to be open and honest about where I was. And once there was this feeling of, hey, I'm here with you and I want to help you through this, let's do this, right? And the Lord used people in my life to help with that, and it was a theological understanding, this this concept of what does it mean to walk with the Lord? And then there was this experiential part of here's someone who's walking alongside me as I'm trying to understand this. And the Lord also was there during those moments of deep, deep prayer where I would cry out to him, where I felt alone, where I felt like no one understood. And no one knows about those things, right? And those are the moments that hopefully you've had these, where there is no one else seeing that space that you're currently in when you're in so much pain, so much hurt, so much confusion, so much shame, no one's there, right? And when you go out into your work, to church, to you know, events, you put on a happy face in a sense, because you want to show that you're doing okay. You don't want to, at least I felt like that. I I didn't want to burden anyone with my problems, and that's still the case, you know, where or where I do feel that, and but I've been more open to share little by little, hey, with people that I trust things about my life that I wouldn't normally share, right? But that took a long time to get there because again, I I realized that if I shared, then I would be treated differently. So what I had to learn how to do was to identify safe, secure people who have evidences of being there for me when times were difficult. And again, like I said, the Lord has always provided me with someone in my life at a specific time to meet a specific need to help me walk closer to him or with him. And again, that was that was very, very powerful for me. So if you're struggling with mental health issues, it can be an opportunity to actually draw closer to the Lord and get to know a deeper part of who he is, of his character. Um, so yes, Christians can struggle with mental health issues, and yes, Christians can overcome those mental health issues, right? You're not stuck in those things forever, although for some it might be a lifelong battle. Um, and you know, some Christians may disagree with that, and I totally understand that. But I have seen the Lord provide freedom in a lot of instances, and for others, it's just this continual thing of where they're trusting the Lord to remove it from them at some point, right? Um, you know, and we often make reference to the thorn that Paul is referring to. Um, I think it's in Corinthians or Romans, um, but he refers to them and why it's not been removed, you know, and the Lord kind of mentions that um it's for for bringing glory to him, right? It's to remind him of of that. So, so yeah, so that's um that is why that topic was very important to me, especially if you're listening to this podcast. You know, there I do talk about mental health issues, and I think sometimes, you know, part of your God attachment is learning how do I um view this in light of scripture, and how does this draw me closer to the Lord? How does this show me my attachment to God? Let's see here. Actually, I have two more, so let me get these here.

SPEAKER_02: 42:49

Shame is um internally a very private experience, a very deep internal core that's tied into kind of I am statements. I am bad, I am unlovable, I am not enough, um, I am unworthy, I am defective. There's a lot of kind of I am statements that go along with it. And people as a result develop a shame-based identity. In the literature, the clinical literature is often referred to as shame-proneness, that people are more prone to shame. And so it really involves an inter, so inside the person, intra personal experience, as well as an interpersonal experience. So it's kind of like how I see myself in the eye of the beholder.

SPEAKER_00: 43:45

All right. So that episode was with Dr. Thomas, Dr. John Thomas, uh, one of my favorite professors on campus here at Liberty, and funny guy, one of the smartest guys I know as well. And um, yeah, and just an expert on shame and how that influences uh relationships. This was a really good conversation because we at some point there talked about how when it comes to romantic relationships, how the shame that someone carries often attracts that same level of shame in the person that they may be interested in. So I thought that was really, really interesting. But as you heard in that clip, that it is full of all these I am statements, and that speaks to both our understanding of self, right? The intra-personal relationship, and then it also influences our interpersonal relationships, so our relationships with each other. So he really went into a deep dive on how that applies and how that makes us understand um each other and how shame is very, very prominent, especially in Christian circles. And because of that conversation, and because of the concept of being in the Garden of Eden and that first emotional experience being shame or fear, um, it led to the development of the second podcast, which was the Genesis of Shame podcast. And um, so when I was thinking about doing my research, my my dissertation topic, I was looking at attachment, I was looking at shame. And so, you know what? I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna start looking at shame because this is something that's very prominent in Christian circles. Um, and I want to grow in my understanding of it. So that kind of led to moving from created to connect podcast to the Genesis of Shame podcast. So I'm gonna show a clip of that, which is the last clip here, on how I went from um created to connect to the genesis of shame. Shame in the context of this podcast is the fear that we experience when people get close to us and get to know us for who we really are, right? Because what's wrong with us, so sin is the more general statement, but if we if we wanted to make it more specific, what's wrong is the anger, the lust, the envy, the jealousy, all of these things are things that we have within our hearts. Right? The Bible exposes our hearts and whenever us as believers, when we get close to each other, it's almost like we don't want others to know that about us. So we hide right. So when that happens, really what we're doing is we're saying, I'm afraid for you to know me for who I really am. So talk a little bit there about you know the ending of I'm afraid of you to know me for who I really am, right? And basically what that speaks to is this idea of um if I share with you what I'm struggling with, right? Anger, lust, uh, rage, jealousy, bitterness, if I share with you these things, your perspective of me is gonna change. So instead of doing that, I'm going to keep these things to myself and not share anything with you, right? Which which creates a loss of intimacy and connection in relationships. And one of the points that I also make, and I make this point often, is that you can't just share these parts of yourself with anyone. Uh, there are people, and I do in some ways appreciate their honesty with things that they're struggling with. But one of the things that I notice is that if we're not close, I'm not often checking in on how they're doing with that because there's no closeness there, right? And if they're sharing and they want feedback or they want someone to be checking in on them, or they need just someone to be more attentive to what they're needing, um, it needs to be with people that they're close with. You know, personally, the way that I operate is that way is that I don't share things with people if I'm not close to them. Because what I'm looking for is a consistency of times that I've shared things with them and they responded well to it, whether that be just with their presence, whether it be with a comforting word, an encouraging word, uh, whether it be with a hug, right? Something, a physical um touch component that communicates safety and friendship and closeness. Um, so people who have responded in that way to pains or things that I've experienced, those are the people that I start to trust. And I give a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more. And because it's in that safe context, there's no shame that comes back from that. But if I share things with people that I don't have that trust with, my feeling is, oh, they must think differently about me. But they're also not a safe person, right? I haven't developed enough safety with them to know how they're actually going to respond. With the other friends that I have who are close and mentors that I have who are close and are involved in my life, like, yeah, there's a small feel uh fear that their perception of me may change, but for the most part, I know that they're gonna be there for me. And that's the encouraging part of this is that when it comes to shame, uh, it allows us, if if we were able to deal with it and manage it and give it to the Lord, we're now able to show people who we really are, right? All of us have a presentation, a first mask of what people can see, right? This is all the good things. But not everyone always sees the bad things, and that's okay. That's kind of how things operate. The ideal is that we are open and honest and share with each other, but the environment needs to be created for that, and you can create that by asking the Lord for wisdom to seek out these people in your life who are wiser, who have biblical wisdom, who are walking with Jesus, who can speak to your life because you trust them. Those are the people that you want to be vulnerable with. Not everyone is a person that you can be vulnerable with. So that's just something to learn about yourself. And as you get older, you start to select differently who you allow into that circle, right? And again, all you need really, and I've made this point before, you need two to three people. Uh, that's what you need. Two to three people that you can be fully, brutally honest with, and that they can be involved in your life. If you have more than that, great. But again, that's also difficult to maintain. So I just give that as a small guideline of two to three people, it's a good number. Um, but even if you have one, even that is sufficient, right? Two to three is good, but even if you have one, that is sufficient. So, yeah, that led to the Genesis of Shame podcast. And then obviously now um God attachment healing, and that's them from uh my research topic, moving to God attachment, and how that can heal us in our relationship with God and with others. Now, that didn't end up being my dissertation topic, so I'll talk about that at another time. But yeah, I mean, I just basically wanted to present to you guys just uh an overall view of what the podcast has been, of how it's changed throughout the years, uh, different topics, different guests, and what these uh topics and episodes mean to me. So if you've stayed up until this point, again, thank you. Uh, you know, podcasts are are great because you can passively listen to them, and you know, whatever sticks with you, sticks with you, and that's great. Um, so hopefully something from this episode was able to stick with you and that it's been a blessing to your life. And again, guys, thank you for listening. This was again episode 100. Next week will be episode 101. And I think I have a topic in mind. I have a couple of topics listed that I want to discuss. I just don't know which one I'll I'll I'll uh release next week. So I'll work on that, I'll keep you guys. Thank you for listening. Again, remember to share the podcast. This is episode 100. Share with people so you can get a taste and feel for what this podcast is about because I touch on so many different topics here. And yeah, hopefully um they become followers of the podcast. And again, if you want to um also follow me on social media, that's at God Attachment Healing on Instagram and also on Facebook. You can find me there as well. Thanks, guys. I will see you next week for episode 101. All right, take care.