God Attachment Healing
Hi everyone! Welcome to the God Attachment Healing Podcast. I'm your host, Sam Landa. This podcast is dedicated to Christians who want to understand why they relate to God in the way they do. I explore how our early childhood relationship with our parents--specifically with how they met or did not meet our needs--influences how we relate to ourselves, the church, and to God. Because much of the pains and struggles of life are intertwined in these three areas, I discuss with my guests how we can find healing from the pain, confusion, doubt, and anger experienced in these relationships. If you're interested in learning more about your attachment style and how to heal from the pain you’ve experienced in the relationships mentioned above, then this podcast is for you. Welcome to the show! I'm happy you're here!
God Attachment Healing
Restoring Trust After Betrayal: Navigating Trauma, Addiction, and Healing in the Church w/ Kendra King
Send Me Questions on Attachment
How do you rebuild trust when the foundation of your relationship has been shattered by betrayal? Join us for a compelling conversation with my insightful guest, Kendra King, as we unravel the complexities of betrayal trauma in the context of sex addiction. We explore the unique challenges faced by Christian communities, where secrecy often overshadows vulnerability. Kendra and I discuss whether restoration in such relationships necessarily leads to reconciliation and the transformative role of forgiveness along this painful journey.
Unmet emotional needs can manifest in unexpected and destructive ways, often leading individuals towards infidelity and addiction. Our discussion sheds light on the distinct ways men and women experience and satisfy these needs, highlighting the powerful role of dopamine in addictive behaviors. Even within the framework of Christian beliefs about overcoming sinful desires, the biological drive for pleasure remains a significant force. This episode emphasizes mindfulness as a crucial tool in managing these behaviors, encouraging a balanced understanding of human nature and spirituality.
Betrayal within families and close-knit communities can be a harrowing experience. We tackle the emotional turmoil that arises when trusted individuals are accused of wrongdoing, especially within black and brown communities where these issues are compounded by cultural nuances. Kendra and I stress the importance of confronting these painful realities head-on, offering a path to healing through openness and compassion. By sharing these stories, we hope to foster a community of understanding and grace, paving the way for redemption and healing for all involved.
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My mission is to help you understand your attachment style to learn how you can heal from the pain you’ve experienced in your relationship with God, the church and yourself.
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All right, all right, everyone, welcome back to the God Attachment Healing Podcast.
Speaker 1:I'm doing a series right now on betrayal trauma with Ms Kendra King and she was so great in our first episode sharing about what betrayal trauma is and what that healing process can look like for people. And today we're going to talk a little bit deeper, a little bit more about sex addicts and what that restoration process and redemption process looks like afterwards. This is again a topic that happens in Christian circles and we don't talk about it openly enough and, as we learned in our last episode, one of the healing components to dealing with betrayal trauma is complete vulnerability and openness and putting everything on the table, which is painful, right, and especially when it comes to this idea of having a spouse or partner that is a sex addict. You know that creates this ongoing feelings of PTSD symptoms, right of betrayal, and maybe even make some question their faith. So we'll talk a little bit about that what that process looks like, what restoration can look like. Does it always mean reconciliation and even touch on the aspect of forgiveness? But, kendra, welcome back to the show. It's good having you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it was so good to do the first episode and I am so honored to be back to the show. It's good having you. Thank you, it was so good to do the first episode and I am so honored to be back for the second one awesome, awesome, I am as well.
Speaker 1:This is this is a great topic to discuss, not so much because it's uh, obviously it's not a a fun topic, but it's a necessary topic, right one that needs to discussed, and even you mentioned in the last episode about how the church handles things and due to not being equipped to do so or only to being taught. One way which we discussed was sometimes we try to approach emotional, mental, physical aspects by only addressing the spiritual, and that's just not the way that God wired us right. Right.
Speaker 1:Right, right. But today's topic is a little bit more specific, and this is a growing problem for both men and women. Men have been more known to be the sex addicts. Right Right. There's this growing literature on women also participating in this. Yes, yes, can you share a little bit about that, like what you've seen, because this is not something that this is something that the culture has shifted. I think in men and women.
Speaker 2:But yeah what have you seen regarding that? So I believe, in regards to the men being more prevalent in this particular field, it's just because of how they get caught right. There's a sense of of women being able to kind of manipulate and kind of uh, communicate in a way, or or operate in a way where it's kind of low-key. It's not, it's more, you can explain things away. It's not as as just out there, as as men engage in it. So it's it's more subtle. Women are more subtle in the way they approach things. However, it it still hurts the same way, it still hurts the same way.
Speaker 2:It still hurts. The same way and, from my level of understanding, is that there's some men that stay, some men do not. There's a nature. I think it has a lot to do with how the societal norms and stereotypes of men and women and the expectations of well, if a man cheats on a woman, she should stay. In comparison, if a woman cheats on a man, you just leave her. Why? Why? I've always had that question. It's like this hierarchy, just like when they talk about equality and work and pay and all. It's the same setup in relationships and it's unfortunate because men and women, both are human beings. There's still a level of hurt, there's still a level of betrayal. However, there's still a grace that should be shown, especially if she wants to do better, be better, show you something different, work on herself. I think she's owed the same, the same grace, as if the shoe was on the other foot these are just my thoughts.
Speaker 2:It's just my thoughts, you know, but it's it's. It's unfair at times and, just like when it comes to domestic violence, it's more of a shame on men. Women do the same thing. It's just more subtle, it's emotional, it's verbal, it's not as physical in nature Can be, but I feel as though there is a balance in engagement on both ends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's great insight. You know you mentioned that it looks more subtle for women than it does for men. Cheating with another person, like having sex with another person, and just kind of being in that addictive cycle of just choosing all these different, so constant cheating, right, and then you have the porn addiction, which is okay, that's your go-to for releasing and so on, and it's a consistent thing that's caused significant issues in the relationship and that's typically associated with men, but with women you said that it's more subtle. Now, by subtle, do you mean that they're not really seeking out relationships sexually or are you saying that it's more emotional and therefore it's not the same gravity as them? As, like, what are you referring to when you say that it's more subtle for women?
Speaker 2:oh sam, oh sam. Yes, it's more so emotional because at times not all men, but a lot struggle with being able to hold space emotionally for their partner because there was a lack of cultivation emotionally when they were growing up in childhood or they've had experiences in previous intimate relationships where their emotions were weaponized against them in a sense of oh, you're not man enough, I need you to be more whatever, whatever masculine and all this other stuff, and it's just like okay. So when they get in a relationship with a woman who they're trying to be with or establish a relationship they're they're struggling with, how do I show up?
Speaker 2:well some may show up in a way where they can't connect emotionally. So the woman goes out, finds a man who is more so vulnerable and sharing, holding space for how she feels maybe being engaging and emotional connection was her too. Whatever the case may be, or you can have a man who is vulnerable, or you can have a man who is vulnerable with his significant other or his spouse, and the woman is just like I'm not trying to engage in that, because she has her own emotional detachment, emotional trauma that she's experienced at some point in her life and she's like I am not trying to go there, but you know that I just want a man to show up for me in a materialistic sense or in a sense of presenting masculine protection and all this.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to go down that road with being vulnerable and sharing my emotions.
Speaker 1:So, it could be either or Okay. So they seek that out is what you're saying, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, to avoid the emotional.
Speaker 2:To go back to those emotions, yes, yes, to avoid the emotional, to going back to those emotions. Yes, yes, because there are women out here who lack emotional connection or lack being able to be vulnerable with their emotions, share them, express them, because they observed women that shared the same behaviors or they tried to engage in vulnerabilities emotionally and they were dismissed or neglected or gaslit or whatever the case may be. So there's some type of emotional trauma that they've experienced as well that keeps them from being able to connect with a more vulnerable man.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah. So that brings up one of the common questions I think that people have is is it true, based on your experience and what you've seen in the literature, the idea of men typically cheat? It's a physical thing?
Speaker 2:not emotional right, so it's just for whatever.
Speaker 1:It is. A release, whatever the case was not that's justifiable, but that's the reason. And for women it's more emotional. So if they're not getting emotional needs met in the relationship, in the marriage, they find it somewhere else and that opens the door for sexual encounters.
Speaker 2:Is that what?
Speaker 1:you're seeing.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is the majority of what it looks like. For men it's a majority, I would say there's still. I would say there's still room for those who wears the opposite right, but for the majority it's a physical. You hear like, oh, I didn't really love her, I really didn't like her like that. She provided me sexual engagements that I didn't get from you, so then you have that blaming thing again you weren't fulfilling me sexually, she did, and that's all it was about, or whatever the case would be.
Speaker 2:And then you have the woman who's just like you weren't there for me emotionally and I didn't feel safe with talking to you about my feelings and you just ignored me or you didn't have anything to say. So I went over here and was talking to him and he made me feel seen and heard and he listened to me and all this other stuff. That is the majority of what it looks like. When it comes to the gender comparisons, however, there are outliers, yeah. Yeah, there are outliers out there, but literature wise, what I've seen is the majority. Yeah. That's kind of the setup.
Speaker 1:At what point does it become an addiction? Right, there's a lot of back and forth around the word addiction, right? Because some people talk about it as a biological thing. So they try to explain it like in evolutionary terms where well, you're wired this way, you're wired to seek out pleasure. And this comes into conflict for christians, because the christian belief is right we die to sin, we die to ourselves. So there has to be kind of a suppression of that. Uh, yeah, I mean a killing of that sin, right? Um, so, so, yeah, so, so what does addiction actually look like? When we talk about addiction, it sounds like so far we've been talking about it's a one-time thing, a two-time thing. Maybe there's forgiveness and you try to work on things moving forward. But when we're talking about addiction, we're talking about something that's been continuous, that has been very prevalent, maybe has been going on for a long time. Yeah, what do you refer to when we talk about addiction, and sex addiction in particular?
Speaker 2:Okay, so specifically with sex addiction or just addiction in general, let's just define addiction in general right Addiction, anything that you engage in an unhealthy way that disrupts every aspect of your life relationships, work, a relationship with yourself, just it completely. You are so consumed in this particular thing that you it takes prevalence over anything. Or, if you don't want to use the word, addiction, compulsivity, you're compulsively engaging in this, whatever this is on a consistent basis where it keeps you so consumed, but that's all you want to do. So that is addiction, or AKA addiction, compulsivity, right, and then help in an unhealthy engagement in something. Yeah, right, okay.
Speaker 2:So to address the, the biological pleasure, christianity, we die to self, all this other stuff. You are human. Okay, you have dopamine in your brain. Anything that triggers that dopamine to flow, guess what? It's pleasurable, I don't care if it's you reading a book, you going outside, you feel the sun, you watering your plants, you walking your dog it triggers dopamine. Okay, that doesn't go. That's how you're made up genetically. However, when you're constantly triggering that dopamine to flow in something that's unhealthy, that becomes addiction or compulsivity. That's unhealthy. So you can die to flesh all you want to as a believer, right, it's dopamine still is there.
Speaker 1:It does not go away yeah, yeah and it's something that you have to be mindful of and one and one huge piece of that, too, is that the dopamine. Once you receive a certain amount of it, the next step is wanting more, more. It goes into that deeper cycle, right?
Speaker 2:yes, yes, so that is the biological makeup of that. For those who want to side with the more religious view, the more Christian, structured, strict view you're human. It doesn't go away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:Know that If you don't take anything from this podcast. Please take that, Take that.
Speaker 1:No, that's good, that's good. So we're saying, then, that people who are addicted allow for this space in their life sexual addiction, whatever that is to take over, so much so that it disrupts all the other areas of their lives yes, addictive nature, and so on. So what, what characteristics do they share Like? Do they have certain either personality characteristics or habits that make them more prone to to being addicted, or is it just okay.
Speaker 2:So and not to interrupt him. No, you're good, I apologize, you're good. It can be. It could be biological right. It could be biological right, say, there is addiction or mental health struggles within parents, grandparents right Sets up patterns. It could be societal right we were exposed from our peers, siblings, you know, and that built it, it up. Or it could be something that you just kind of fall into and that you continuously you trigger that dopamine and you just build it up, build it up, building.
Speaker 2:You're constantly chasing that high, so there's different levels of how it can form. However, it still ends up leading to the same thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, and you know, one of the things that we often look to, and you kind of touched on it the idea of history or biology. But there is this one piece of level of exposure you kind of mentioned that.
Speaker 1:And I think what we're finding is that the youngest age and this is for boys, I don't know what it is for girls, it might be around the same age exposure to pornography is. I think it's like six years old the last time I read, and so that kind of sets up. And I've had a lot of clients who talk about the level of exposure and it could have been in passing, was a, an uncle or a friend that showed them something and then from that point on, moving forward. So you have these, these, uh, these clients who come in, they enter a relationship and this has been going on for for years right and it may be every couple of months, or or maybe they start with it every other day, or whatever the case, is regarding the addictive piece.
Speaker 1:What do you see mostly regarding like?
Speaker 2:you see a lot of people who, when they share their story, it started in their childhood, like that, they were exposed to pornography early on so you have a level of exposure when it comes to porn, or level of exposure when it comes to just sexual topics in nature, or you have sexual trauma. Yeah, so there's a lot of sexual trauma there with men and women.
Speaker 1:It's so sad.
Speaker 2:It is sad. It is sad and oh, I'm going to go there because this is the space Within the Christian body. Yeah, yeah it's so deep because it's it could have happened within the church, within the state, like it's. It's so deep, but we sweep it under the rug. We sweep it under the rug until it presents itself in a more public form and then you want to address it right right but there's a level of let's hide it, let's keep it secret, specifically in the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in all religions, but in the church, and it doesn't matter Catholic, christian, whatever it's in the church and it's sad or it's familial and you're sweeping it under the rug, especially when it comes to black and brown people. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know uncles, cousins, cousins, oh you know if it's shared or if, if the the, the person tells their parents or tell somebody, oh, it's like a little quick, let's hurry up and like so this will address it, but you still have your child exposed to this person because the person's part of the family. But you don't want to cause any ripple effects and I've had clients to where it was sexual trauma from their own parents and it's just in this, this hiding the secrecy.
Speaker 2:Then the church knew about it and all this stuff happened, but it was still a level like that is re-traumatizing over and normalizing it instead of addressing it and calling it for what it is right so I have a big issue when it comes to church and religion and familial and in hiding and yeah, it's a trigger for me it's a trigger for me, because I see it, I see it and it's sad. It's really sad.
Speaker 1:It really is, because it puts that justice hat on for us, right, Because you wish you could do something, and both the client themselves feel powerless in that situation because it's a parent, it's a family member or not being believed, right, and there is that shock factor. I think that for the people, whether it be the parents or people in the church, when they hear it it's almost, it's unbelievable, right. They think there's no way my brother, sister would have done that or my aunt would have done that. So yeah. So how does that show up then? Because typically, yeah. So how does that show up then? Because typically, I feel like children are not hurt, right, there's that piece of children are not hurt, that sometimes they lie and all of these things. So when it's something big like this, I think what keeps it hidden is the shame that the people have for allowing it in some way to happen. Does that sound about right?
Speaker 2:Yes, and on top of that, sam, you shift the blame onto the child. Yeah, it's the child. Oh well, you shouldn't have been too close, or you shouldn't have worn that, or you shouldn't have been there, and all this. This is a child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, an adolescent, all this. This is a child, yeah, an adolescent, and you're holding them accountable for trauma that was impacted and projected upon them. How dare you? How dare you? And then, when it's unresolved, then they become adults and they start acting out in these unhealthy, compulsive ways Sexually, porn, drugs, alcohol, whatever. They start acting out in these unhealthy, compulsive ways sexually, porn, drugs, alcohol, whatever. And you're trying to figure out where it all started. Well, it started when they shared that they were sexually traumatized by a family member about, by someone within the church and, excuse me, they went to tell the person they felt emotionally safe with and they didn't believe them and then blamed them and then still subjected them to the person that did it yeah yeah oh, it's so deep, sam, it's so deep, it's so deep and it's so sad.
Speaker 2:It's so sad, it's so deep and it's so sad. It's so sad and it's just like. That is where the emotional safety, feeling seen and feeling hurt that can't go to my family or people that I feel that protect me. I don't feel safe with them. If I don't feel safe with them, who can I feel safe with?
Speaker 1:That's true. Yeah, so they take that into relationships and not being able to be fully vulnerable because at some point they're not going to be believed or heard or something which continues to be backing out. Yes, they were violated wow, no, this is really. This is really powerful, kendra. I think that is something that maybe we can address here, where, um, when parents hear something like, or just anyone in the church, when they hear something like this about sexual abuse, someone gets accused. Hey, so and so touchedand-so touched me in this way.
Speaker 1:They did this. What should that process look like for them to look into that? Because we want to protect the children and we want to go and directly ask, maybe the person that was accused. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out. What could we share with the audience that?
Speaker 2:how do you address an issue like that? Well, number one if it's a child, believe them Anything sexual in nature. If they come to you and they're like hey, so-and-so touched me and it made me feel uncomfortable, or they did, however, they believe it's a child no child should be talking to you or sharing things of sexual nature who weren't exposed.
Speaker 2:So believe them. Believe them and then you start the process of let's really investigate this. Let us, let's confront this person I don't care who is there with you to confront the person. We need to confront this person and we need to figure out a way to be able to keep this baby safe. If it's, if it's letting the person go out the church, disconnect, making sure that this person, if it's a family member, making sure that this person is not around this child, I don't care what you do. But if you don't, you are setting this child up to be traumatized and live a life as an adult of not being emotionally safe, not secure, validated. It's just going to be a snowball effect. Like it's just going to be a snowball effect.
Speaker 2:And if we're going to sit up here and say our children are our future and we have to protect the babies, and all that other stuff, walk in that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Walk in that. Don't just give lip service to that, because you don't understand what that essentially will do to them if they don't feel a sense of protection. I don't care. If it does sound far-fetched, investigate it thoroughly, thoroughly. So it's really hard when it comes to addressing sexual trauma that has been inflicted upon a child within a family setting or within the church setting. It is hard because there is a sense of of well, how am I gonna look?
Speaker 2:or how is the, how is the church gonna look like it's? If you're more worried about your reputation? Than the protection of an individual. You are not in the service of others at all. You do not belong in any position of power to help people do anything. Yeah. Because those are the most vulnerable, are our children. So you have an obligation to exercise that. You have a responsibility to really protect them and show them the way, because if you don't, it's going to show up, it's going to show up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was thinking about children usually go to the people that they feel safest with and they share with them and we're reversing, let's say, that that parent addresses like who did this? They look into it, they protect the child. That security or that attachment to that security figure becomes strengthened because I trusted you with something that I feel scared about sharing with you, that I know could probably cause some issues, and you protected me in defending so that becomes like the strongest bond that you would have.
Speaker 1:Yes, it does, and when they're representing God, or when they are in the church, like again, it changes or connects to their view of God, like God protected me, he's my family, he's this person, but to your point, it is sad that we still hear that these stories are happening within.
Speaker 2:The church.
Speaker 1:But it brings up another issue where the ones who are not addressing it and I have seen this where they have not dealt with something that they have experienced themselves- right. Because we usually see, like this trend of if someone was sexually abused, then their generation also becomes that and there's shame around it. There's so much shame around it, um, and I wonder if you've seen that as well. Like this, this generation, it's not a generational, that it has to happen. I don't believe in deterministic things like that but it's more you do see a pattern of if someone was sexually abused.
Speaker 1:That tends to happen in the next generation and so on and for whatever reason, the setting the environment, uh, the not dealing with the shame, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:so I I classify it or give it a name of generational dysfunction. Right, you say, say your mom had an experience like that. You come to her and it's a trigger because she went through the same thing but wasn't protected, wasn't validated, there was nothing, nothing happened. They don't know how to show up because they're triggered. That inner child who had that. You don't know what to do. You had no form of of example on how to address these things. And it does fall. Yeah, and so the default is well, I'm going to engage in the same behaviors that people engaged in when it happened to me yeah.
Speaker 2:So you're creating this generational dysfunction of pattern and it just keeps until somebody stops it. Somebody says no, I am not going to sweep this under the rug, act like this is not happening, ignore it whatever, I'm not going to do this anymore. So it has to be an intentional choice of. I don't care what this looks like and how this can make me seem to other people, it's gotta stop, it's gotta stop. So, yes, it is a sense of of of how we say when somebody inflicts sexual trauma on somebody else, this probably happened to them just in the same. When somebody's experienced sexual trauma and they have it in unresolved and then their child or a family member comes to them and shares that and they don't they respond the same way that somebody responded to their situation and it was unhealthy and it wasn't proactive and it didn't protect them.
Speaker 1:It's the same, it's the same thing yeah same thing, oh wow, such a tough topic, such a tough.
Speaker 2:Oh sam, it is it is, but it's like we gotta stop. We gotta stop hiding. I'm so tired of hiding, I'm so tired of the church hiding from the deeper issues. You want to talk about all this other stuff and just skim on this topic and it's just like no, I'm, I'm, I am, I am not that person. I am not that person. I am not that Christian. I am not that believer, because I have personal experience. So that shifts my approach, because not only am I professionally knowledgeable and understand, but also know it from a personal perspective. And I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not. No, I'm obligated. God has called me to use my voice to share my story. I don't got no shame or no guilt in anything that I've experienced, because it helps shift and change lives. It brings light to people's darkness and it gives them a sense of hope and inspiration and motivation to do something. You have to do something in order to change or shift the narrative, so I will talk about it.
Speaker 2:whether it be a church or whether it be out in the street. I don't care. This is the whole. This is the whole purpose. We don't. We don't engage in passions and callings and being chosen just so we can hide our light. God did not call us to hide our light at all. You're supposed to be the salt and the light of the earth, right? Well, how do you do it? You go out there.
Speaker 2:You go out there in all your glory and you believe God, he's going to protect you and keep you while you're out here trying to help others. And you use your story, you use your example to change and shift things. That is how people become better and healthier versions of themselves. You use yourself as a example. As a sacrifice, you lay yourself on the altar.
Speaker 1:I love that, kendra. I love that. I love your heart for this space and for helping people in that and bringing awareness to it, because I'm with you. These are things that need to be discussed and you know the title of this podcast is God Attachment Healing.
Speaker 1:And the reason a lot of hurt, because a lot of hurt was happening within the church. I was noticing that people start to shift in their attachment or relationship with God and so, okay. So how does that healing look like? So, if we're hurt in relationship, we're in a healing relationship. That's relationship with people that are trustworthy and also in a relationship with God.
Speaker 1:But one thing, as we're talking about this, that came to mind was this aspect of forgiveness. Right, when people have been hurt, sexually abused, there's trauma, all of these things. One of the common go-tos for people is well, we need to forgive that person, or vice versa, right, and I'm curious, you know we talk often about the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation the person who was sexually abused by a family member, by someone in the church, the Christian duty or the thing that they're going to be recommended to do, is to forgive, but that looks very different as an adult, or even as a child, to forgive someone who did something like that to them, right? So what would forgiveness look like? Or is that even I mean, dare I say, is that even something that they should be focusing on?
Speaker 1:when they're trying to process that trauma.
Speaker 2:Okay. So people assume that forgiveness is for the other person. Yes and no. It is because you want to release them from the guilt and the obligation and the shame, all that other stuff. However, it's essentially for you and until you forgive that person, you are going to be in your own prison within yourself and it cultivates a sense of a victim mindset, a victim mindset, and you carry that through resentments, through disconnect, through the lack of connection, the desire to. You can't trust people and all this other stuff. You imprison yourself. That's all it is.
Speaker 2:Now you can forgive someone. That doesn't mean that you have to reconcile. Where does it say in scripture that we have to reconcile? It is not an obligation. You can forgive someone and you can let them go. That's okay. That's okay. But you do have to forgive them and you do have to love them, because that's what you're called to do. But you don't have to forgive them and you do have to love them, because that's what you're called to do, but you don't have to have them in your space, you don't have to have them in your environment. You don't have to talk to them anymore. After you release them, you let them go and you move on with your life. This person, in whatever way that that happened, won't get triggered again because essentially it may ptsd kind of carries on through life. You know what I'm saying. But at the end of the day you forgive them, you forgive yourself, but you move on through your healing process and working through that. Now, if you want to reconcile with this person, that is your choice. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That is your choice. I've seen it done. I've seen it done, where sexual trauma has been inflicted upon a person and they have worked through and healed, excuse me, and processed and understood and released. Yet they still wanted to reconcile, and that was okay too. They just wanted to be able to be in a space to move past this elephant in the room.
Speaker 2:Let's call it for what it is, let's acknowledge it, let's heal through it, let's be active on being able to letting this go, letting the denial go, letting the shame go, letting the guilt go. All this I forgive you. So I'm releasing you from a prison that you've put me in but you also put yourself in. However, I still want to be in communion with you, that's okay, too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so powerful. Yeah, difficult but powerful, and I like that you provided those aspects of what forgiveness is and what it isn't. We kind of jumped into this topic on what the restoration process will look like after betrayal, but I think one of the things that we realize as we're talking now is that this aspect of betrayal really stems from unresolved trauma. Yeah, and what we're seeing is maybe a lot of unresolved trauma is leading to these aspects of betrayal. So, as we've discussed that, is there anything that we missed, anything that you feel we need to address so that the audience leaves with an understanding of you know, there's a lot of people that are hurt in the church, and if this is you right now, who maybe haven't addressed unresolved trauma or betrayal or sexual abuse or anything like that, what would they need to do? We talk about personal healing, taking accountability, forgiveness and so on, but is there something that you would share with them? That would be helpful?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll leave the audience with this, right. We all walk around in life as adults with emotional baggage. Right, it has a lot of stuff in it, but we're all carrying it around, right, it's just a little carry on, stop and open it up, yeah. Open it up. Sift through what belongs to you and what doesn't. Mm-hmm. And when you figure out what does start there, because you have it, you have it, this state of denial that, oh, I'm fine, no, you're not. None of us are fine, we're never fine. We are never fine.
Speaker 2:There is something going on within us at all times that we're battling constantly, constantly Acknowledge it, acknowledge it, give yourself grace to work through it. But you can't continue to exist in this state of denial because it's going to be a barrier from you really being able to walk fully and lighthearted and feel a sense of liberation in your relationship with God, in your relationship with others. It is really Impacting your ability to be fulfilled in life, in your relationships, in the things that you're passionate about, because it's a constant nag. It's a constant nag and it doesn't go anywhere.
Speaker 2:No it doesn't go anywhere. It follows you around. It is your shadow, it is your shadow self. So, yes, yes, let's deal with this stuff. Just start there.
Speaker 1:Just start there. Good words, good words, kendra, wow, wow. Really, this was a heavy topic, but I'm glad we touched on it. Me too, you have great expertise and insights on the topic and I really appreciate that you sharing with us and the audience, and we'll have to do another one.
Speaker 2:We will, I sharing with us and the audience, and we'll have to do another one. We will. I like talking to you, sam, you're so awesome but um, but yeah, thank you, kendra.
Speaker 1:Kendra, is there anything that you'd like to share with us about contact you know more about you, or information anything?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, um, audience members, if you want to find me, reach out to me. You. You can Google Kendra King, charlotte, north Carolina. I will come up, or you can go to the HealingHeartTherapyCentercom, or you can email me, kendra at the HealingHeartTherapyCentercom. And yeah, just go from there, you can find me Absolutely, absolutely Great, great conversation Kendra.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely Great, great conversation Kendra. I appreciate it and yeah, hopefully we'll catch up soon.
Speaker 2:Yes, soon. Thanks, Sam.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Kendra.