God Attachment Healing
Hi everyone! Welcome to the God Attachment Healing Podcast. I'm your host, Sam Landa. This podcast is dedicated to Christians who want to understand why they relate to God in the way they do. I explore how our early childhood relationship with our parents--specifically with how they met or did not meet our needs--influences how we relate to ourselves, the church, and to God. Because much of the pains and struggles of life are intertwined in these three areas, I discuss with my guests how we can find healing from the pain, confusion, doubt, and anger experienced in these relationships. If you're interested in learning more about your attachment style and how to heal from the pain you’ve experienced in the relationships mentioned above, then this podcast is for you. Welcome to the show! I'm happy you're here!
God Attachment Healing
Overcoming Betrayal Trauma and Repairing Relationships w/ Kendra King
Send Me Questions on Attachment
Could betrayal trauma be silently shaping your relationships? Join us for an enlightening episode featuring Kendra King, a respected expert in betrayal trauma and affair recovery. With over ten years of experience in mental health, Kendra shares her profound insights into the complex emotions and challenges that arise from betrayal in romantic relationships. Drawing from her extensive work at the Healing Heart Center, she sheds light on the intricate layers of betrayal trauma, which extend far beyond infidelity and include emotional betrayals such as withholding feelings or engaging in intimate conversations outside the partnership.
We explore the symptoms and triggers of betrayal trauma, highlighting the nuanced ways stress can lead individuals to unhealthy behaviors when they lack coping mechanisms. The conversation emphasizes the critical role of open communication and emotional safety as protective measures against betrayal. Kendra's inclusive approach makes her insights accessible to individuals of diverse faith backgrounds, breaking through the shame often surrounding these topics, especially within Christian communities. By understanding personal boundaries and perceptions, couples can navigate the risks of betrayal and strengthen their connections.
As we journey through the emotional aftermath of betrayal, we tackle the realities of PTSD, hypervigilance, and erosion of trust. Kendra underscores the importance of both partners confronting their emotional responses rather than concealing pain or expecting one person to resolve the issue alone. Through personal accountability, vulnerability, and therapy, individuals are encouraged to engage in self-reflection and growth. By embracing these principles, Kendra reveals how individuals can transform their actions and nurture healthier, more resilient relationships.
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My mission is to help you understand your attachment style to learn how you can heal from the pain you’ve experienced in your relationship with God, the church and yourself.
I look forward to walking alongside you as you draw closer to Christ!
All right, everyone, welcome back to the God Attachment Healing Podcast. I'm excited for a couple of episodes and series that I have going on this upcoming weeks, and tonight I have the privilege of interviewing Ms Kendra King, and she's going to be talking about betrayal and its traumatic effects on a romantic partner or spouse, and this is her specialization. This is what she does. She's had a lot of years and she's going to share a lot about her credentials and experience. And, kendra, thank you for being on the show today.
Speaker 2:So welcome, so welcome. Thank you for having me. This is an honor, yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You know, one of the things that I don't don't know if it's hard to do, but it's really encouraging to be able to meet with other Christians in the space of counseling, because I think I don't know if this was your experience, but just kind of the things that we see regarding our faith ties in very well to counseling, and this topic that we're discussing today is a very sensitive topic because we see it experienced in a lot of relationships. Right, so I'm excited to dive into this topic, but before we do, as always, thank you for tuning in. For those of you who are listening, remember to follow on Instagram at GodAttachmentHealing, and also follow us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and I'll allow for Ms Kendra at the end to share any resources or a way to contact her if you guys need anything or just have questions for her. But yeah, let's go ahead and dive in. Ms Kendra King, introduce yourself to the audience. What's your background? Where are you from?
Speaker 2:Sure, so everyone. I'm Kendra King. I live and have been here for almost 18 years, charlotte, north Carolina. My background has been in mental health and substance abuse. For 10 plus years, I started specializing in sex and porn addiction, sex therapy and affair recovery around 20, I want to say 2019. And so now I've had the owner and lead therapist of my own private practice, the Healing Heart Center.
Speaker 1:For the past, two years, I love that name.
Speaker 2:So, yes, yes, it's a combination of the group practice. I got exposed to this field and my mentor, also supervisor, who I got my certification from it's the Heart to Heart Counseling Center out in Colorado, dr Doug Weiss. He's been one of the contributors to the sex and porn addiction field and I did my supervision directly under him. So I kind of bridged the names of the group practice I was at and his practice, and the healing heart center was born. So yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. And what drew you to? Was there something that drew you to working with this population?
Speaker 2:So, yes, I've always wanted to be an eclectic therapist. I always strive to be a therapist that was well-rounded, well-versed, exposed to different types of subject matter topics. I wanted to be different and I wanted to be connected personally and professionally to what it is that I specialized in. So when I found the group practice that I mentioned earlier and the topics that they just talked about, I was just like, oh, I didn't know, this was a thing, let me try this out. And then, once I got exposed, I just I fell in love.
Speaker 2:I became super passionate and I just kind of just dived even deeper into just being able to bring this to a platform such as yours to just kind of share what I've been exposed to professionally, who I've worked with and stuff like that, just so, the audience and people just in society, christians, you know, just people in general. We don't talk about sex. It's a very like you said, touchy topic, but everybody's engaging in it, right? It doesn't matter what your faith background is, who you consider your higher power. It's kind of one of those things that we, as human beings, we're sexual. So there there are healthy ways and then there's unhealthy ways, and so I just I'm grateful to be able to bridge the gap and be able to give knowledge and understanding to something that that that's really important and something that we all, you know, need to be well informed about when it comes to just interacting with one another.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Do you work specifically with Christian clients or just all types of clients?
Speaker 2:So I work with all types of clients. I do have believers of the faith, Christian folks that identify themselves as Christians, but I do also have individuals who are still exploring or are just open so I am able to apply the knowledge to anyone really believers.
Speaker 2:It's, it's it's really being able to break the condemnation, to break that kind of religious structure on what sexuality is, what it's not, and kind of be able to give a better broad understanding of, of being able to know the difference, like said, of healthy and unhealthy, and taking away that judgment, because sometimes us as Christian, other Christian faith, of believers, we can be really judgmental and it's just like, at the end of the day, all of us are people and so it doesn't matter what you feel you know is saying there is no hierarchy, there is a level of you need to just own your stuff. Just own your stuff and work on it and work through it. So no pointing fingers here, it's all. Let's just be better and let's do better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and especially with a topic like this, right, it's one of those things and you touched on it, this idea of shame and condemnation, and that's why I feel like it's such an important piece for Christians to address. So you know, as we jump into this topic, so I guess, just for the audience, what is betrayal trauma? Right, we hear you know there's cheating, there's betrayal of emotions, there's different ways to cheat nowadays. So when you talk about betrayal trauma, what is it that you're referring to exactly?
Speaker 2:Well, like you said, sam, it is all those things. It could be emotional, it could be mental, it could be physical, it could be sexual, it could really be anything. Anything that violates the boundaries and the trust between you and your partner or your spouse. That is what betrayal trauma consists of. It's very broad. It can look like different things, especially if there is not an established or an open line of communication on what are the boundaries. What are we able to do in regards to engaging with the opposite sex? In regards to engaging in porn.
Speaker 2:In regards to gauging an emotional connection with other people, what does that look like and how do we define that and how can we have an open conversation to be able to explore those without being defensive, without feeling the need to hide? I think there's just a lack of the foundational establishment of communication because, right like it's this invasive kind of thing like, oh, you're trying to control me or you're trying to tell me what to do, or whatever the case may be, it's just like no, I just, I just I don't want to be hurt, I don't want to hurt you. So let's just kind of come to the table and talk about what, what are things that are negotiable, what are non-negotiables, and and let's kind of move forward in an open dialogue when it comes to those things, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like there's an assumption on both partners that we know what cheating is, we know what betrayal is and we're just moving through life and then, when it happens, like, oh, why is this a problem? So I think what I heard was people just don't really communicate about it openly, like, hey, what are your boundaries here? Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, it's a big thing. A big thing that couples come to me about is communication. Communicating about emotions or assumptions. Like you assume that I'm doing this as opposed to just asking me, or there's behaviors that have been discovered, whatever the case may be. Really just communication.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And what's a common? What's a common theme that you find with the clients that you're working with? I know we mentioned porn, but is that the common theme or is there other things?
Speaker 2:So there are other things as well. Not all of them consist of porn. They consist of having intimate conversations with other people, such as emotional conversations. You can talk to other people about how you feel, but you can't talk to me. There's a lack of understanding. I feel like I'm going to keep these things to myself, because when I do share, you know I feel attacked or I feel dismissed or unheard unseen.
Speaker 2:It's just a variety of things that kind of sum up this type of misunderstanding. Really, you know, and, like I said, it all comes with communication, so it can show up in different types of ways. There's not always the sexual betrayal, it's not always porn use. And I've discovered that you're using porn. You didn't tell me about this. Who are you? It's not always like that, but it still has the same impact, which consists of betrayal trauma.
Speaker 1:Okay, no, that consists of betrayal trauma. Okay, no, that's good to know. So when people don't talk about this, what is I guess? What is it? Why does it happen in romantic relationships? I know we're talking about communication piece. Are there like any type of triggers that started, Because most people, I think, the first couple of years it seems like there's open communication, but then life happens, they have kids, there's change in jobs, there's moving, so it sounds like those are barriers to communication because it becomes overwhelming. But are there any specific triggers that you would say? You know what, when people go through this, they need to be extra careful about potentially betraying each other, because there's some, some situation that kind of set that up for. For people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Stress, stress is the biggest one you know and being able to feel emotionally safe to to share the emotions and the vulnerability of what stress influences. It could stem from childhood, it can happen in adolescence, it could really happen anywhere, to be honest, but it's really a sense of I feel stressed, I don't know how to cope in a healthy way. So I am going to engage in behaviors that may or may not be appropriate, that I may share with you.
Speaker 2:I may not you know and and those kind of set kind of the path up to where you start drifting off and detaching from your partner and engaging potentially in these unhealthy behaviors.
Speaker 1:So if people don't have good responses to stress, they're more prone to, or at least open to, betrayal. You have an outlet to support.
Speaker 2:It doesn't necessarily have to be a significant other or your spouse, somebody. I need you to talk to someone, because when you internalize all these experiences, you're just setting yourself up to ruminate, to overthink, and you become even more overwhelmed with what's going on and you're just kind of festering within and you don't have anywhere for it to be let out. And then it's just like, oh, and if you do have a background in unhealthy sexual behaviors or unhealthy compulsive sexual behaviors, then your go-to is, oh, I feel, I feel stressed, I need to release, I need to to, to sense or soothe myself. Let me just do this right quick, and then it's a quick fix instead of really dealing with the root of the issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's a, that is a common experience, and I wonder, as I read a lot of research on the aspect of trauma and how those ruptures happen in attachments within relationships. So, for you, what are some common symptoms that you see from betrayal? Because people, to your point, people experience it differently, because some communicate and they have, they each have different boundaries for what's considered cheating, what's not. So what are some things that you see in your clients that are oh yeah, this is a strong symptom of being betrayed.
Speaker 2:PTSD for sure, that's number one. So hypervigilant, being in a state of panic like the shoe's about to drop, or not being able to feel comfortable when your partner's not around. So you've discovered things and y'all talked about them, but it's just like, oh, I still feel this sense of fear or apprehension. Internalization is a big one too, being able to not take on the blame. I'm not enough, I'm not sexually what he wants or what she wants, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2:So it's really an internal kind of self-destruction breakdown of the person you know, being able to show up in relationships, being able to share what's going on, a sense of hiding and secrecy. Can't talk to your family, can't talk to your friends. They're not going to understand. They may potentially judge. You don't want to feel shame or guilt either. Stand, they may potentially judge. You don't want to feel shame or guilt either. You may potentially try to carry this on your own.
Speaker 2:There's just so many things, but ptsd is definitely the biggest one, and also being able to help the person who is betrayed understand and accept the fact that this is not just going to heal overnight. There's this thing of you need to go get fixed. You need to go talk to somebody. This is your issue. You need to fix it because you're the one that caused the betrayal, when, in actuality, they also need to be addressed too. Their stuff needs to be addressed too, because there's this sense of well, if you go get better and you go work out your issue, then you can make me feel better, and that's not the case.
Speaker 2:You still have to do your own work. So internalizing PTSD, hypervigilant, a lot of lack of trust, engaging in like kind of what we call acting in as opposed to acting out, overeating, sleeping, just disconnected in life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And is that something that is noticed by people around them? Or, you know, because we do a good job of showing others that everything is okay, especially in Christian circles right, the idea of no, we're good, you know, and we got to wrestle with this ourselves, so it's almost like the there's a a I don't know if I wouldn't say it there's a secret among the couple. Like, we know that this is happening in our marriage and we don't want to feel that shame, so we're not going to share with anyone, but we also don't know how to deal with it. So it kind of becomes a cycle of not really dealing with it, just living in it. Right.
Speaker 1:And I wonder what do you recommend for clients who are in that situation? Or do you see that often with clients that you're working with?
Speaker 2:I do see I haven't seen specifically where they're they are intentionally showing up with a mask on. However, they want it to remain in house as much as possible, more public or more connected familially with friends and stuff like that family, whatever the case may be. There could be a sense of we're going to mask this and we're going to figure this out and we're not going to let this leak out. Because if they say, if they're a high profile couple or they're in a leadership type of role in whatever capacity, showing that there is a there's a fault, there's a fault, there's an area of weakness within the institution, who, within the relationship, could cause other people to make assumptions, make judgments, whatever the case may be, and there's this image there's this image that they want to protect and it's just like no, no, I need you to, I need you to work on.
Speaker 2:And it's just like no, no, I need you to. I need you to work on that because, as these people, I tell clients all the time that we have different, we have different masks or different ideas of self. Right, you got your public self, you got your actual self, and then you got your real self somewhere in there. We got to figure out which one we're going to engage in and we're going to have to be able to show up in that.
Speaker 2:Nobody everybody don't need to know your business. However, I need you to acknowledge what's going on. You can't just hide, because you're essentially dying and dimming inside.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, yeah, that's true. And do you find that they put up a wall or they resist that, like it sounds like there's a huge denial, that it's a big problem or that it's even an issue at all?
Speaker 2:There's a lot of compartmentalization, more so from the betrayer as opposed to the betrayed.
Speaker 2:But there can be some in the betrayed too. Like I said before, this is your issue. You need to go work that out. I didn't do anything, but yet you're still feeling all these things because of the actions that were taken and made. So it really, it really depends, sam. Everybody shows up different and it looks different, but it's important that the audience understands that this is a vast. This is a vast thing and it can look like anything, but it all feels the same. It's all a sense of betrayal. It's all a sense of secrecy and violation, mistrust. There's communication issues in there already too, so it's just so many packed on layers.
Speaker 1:that's coming to mind is just the idea of being open and talking about it with with each other, that it's better to be open than to be hiding it.
Speaker 1:Yes, but it sounds like I think one of the things that I've heard clients share is that, well, if I share, then things are just going to get worse. And do you find that it does get worse but then it gets better? Or is it just kind of like that's the end of it all and that's it? People just want to give up on the marriage. Like, what do you see regarding that when people start to share or they open up the first time?
Speaker 2:So the level of vulnerability is a big barrier because it's just like well, if I'm vulnerable, I'm just leaving myself up to get open or hurt again. Because it's just like well, if I'm vulnerable, I'm just leaving myself up to get open or I hurt again, and it's just like well. That's not necessarily the case, but at the end of the day, you know, yes, that may happen, but then it may not. You know, all you can do is focus on what you can control. Cause, at the end of the day, if you want to save your marriage and you want to stay in it, you're going to have to show. You're still going to have to do your part, even though you were the one portrayed. So you know you have to get rid. A big thing is getting rid of the expectations, like I was talking about the timeframe of when is this hurry? This is going to hurry up and be over with. It doesn't work like that.
Speaker 1:It's going to always be there.
Speaker 2:It's always be there. It's being able to lower that, that voice, that that. What are they doing? Do you think they're like, like all those negative thoughts, those internalizations, being able to quiet that down because it's not going nowhere, because it happened? You can forgive, but you ain't gonna forgive and you're gonna essentially have triggers that it doesn't matter how long y'all healed together, healed separately or whatever the case may be, you can still get triggered. That could still happen out of anywhere. You know what I'm saying, so you know. Just toss the expectations yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's good for the, for the audience to know that even as you're healing or as you're working through this, that doesn't mean that it eliminates those feelings that can still come up. So I guess that jumps into our next question of okay, so what does healing look like for someone who has experienced betrayal trauma? What does that process look like for them? You mentioned there's no real timeline, right? I can't hurry this process up, but we've often heard the concept of people hurt in relationship and they also heal in relationship. Do you have any thoughts about that? Because it sounds like this would be a two person thing, like in order for that person to heal, both need to work and it's not something that you can do individually. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Right. So I am a firm believer you have to start with yourself. The betrayer has to start with themselves. You have to figure out where you kind of went wrong or where did this all start to lead up into this, and then be able to work with the portrayed to heal those things right giving context, giving explanations, giving knowledge, giving background, really opening yourself that vulnerability and sharing fully sharing and letting go of the sense of shame and guilt because it's already brought you this far. So you know your best bet if you want to heal yourself is start being honest with yourself really yeah so same with the, with the betrayed.
Speaker 2:Individual work. Take accountability for the things that you recognize. You did Not to influence the betrayer's actions, but just how did you honestly show up in the relationship? Were you emotionally safe to talk to? Were you vulnerable? Did you make time? Were you intentional? Were you present? Were you make time? Were you intentional? Were you present? Were you sexually engaged, like? Really take inventory on how you showed up in this relationship, because it's always a sense of you want to shift, everybody wants to shift the blame.
Speaker 2:The betrayer wants to shift the blame, the betrayed wants to shift the blame. Now both of y'all need to take accountability, because both of y'all played a part into what has happened. Yeah, yeah. And that's just really what it is. I think there's sometimes there's a sense of denial that it's it's both parties false. Right.
Speaker 2:It may not have been one person, may not have done as extreme as the other, but still like there was a disconnect somewhere, there was a detachment somewhere. Something happened somewhere. You didn't just, you know, happen to just fall into this thing. Something happened and it's okay to hold yourself accountability. Accountable. I would hope so. I would hope you do that as an individual outside of a relationship yeah, yeah so it's just being able to be honest with oneself and really, really checking it?
Speaker 2:did I? Was I really, was I really the best partner? I could possibly be not taking on the, the actions that you know the betrayed engaged in. But was did I really show up? Could I've been better? Could I've done more?
Speaker 2:yeah I think sometimes we don't really evaluate our sense of performance, and when I say performance I don't mean like dates and in materialistic, surface level stuff. I mean as as being able to really show up in a human sense yeah being able to provide that emotional security, to have the open communication, to be honest and transparent. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like, there's just, there's just different ways of being able to engage in a healthy way in relationships and we're not taught that, especially as christians yeah especially as christians, we, we kind of shift away from the humanistic side and kind of stick strictly to the spiritual, and it's just like you are a spiritual being having a human experience. I need you to acknowledge both, I need you to work out both you know, what I'm saying. Like you can't just put one on a higher pedestal than the other. It doesn't work like that. Just as much as you feed your spirit, you need to feed your human, your humanity as well, in a healthy way, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's only fair, that's so true, and that's a great point too, because I think, yeah, you're right. In Christian circles they say if you address the spiritual piece, then that's going to affect the other parts. But similarly, if the physical or the emotional is not addressed, that also affects how one feels spiritually.
Speaker 2:How can you show up with God?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How? If you don't acknowledge that you have weaknesses, you have weaknesses and you have to surrender. You have to surrender and accept that you need help in these areas. In order to be able to, you have to be vulnerable for the Father. You have to be able to bring all, have to be vulnerable for the father. You have to be able to bring all. You know like you got to do the same thing. You just can't have one without the other.
Speaker 1:No, that's such a great point. When people are expecting a change, do you often find and you've already mentioned this this idea of taking personal accountability. Okay, what did I do wrong, what could I do differently, how can I own my emotions, own my thoughts, and so on. So when people are restoring the relationship or trying to come back to healing the relationship, what are some evidences of that? So, people who are listening, they usually want to rush the process right, but we can't. The healing process just takes time and it's an ongoing journey. So what would you say is some things that people can look at, that show or demonstrate. Hey, you know what, If you see these things in you or in your relationship, then you're moving towards healing and there's hope. So what does that look like for clients?
Speaker 2:So, how we talked about the individual therapy and we talked about couples therapy, the next level would be group therapy, being able to connect with others that have shared experiences, and not just so you can put your business out there. And it's not about that. We cannot do this alone, you cannot heal on your own, and it's better to do this with somebody that's lived it, that's worked it, to be able to engage in this recovery, healing journey. Because that's what it is, that's honestly what it is, because those other people that you bring into your life, that have those sales experiences guess what? They're your accountability partners, so they can call you out when they know you're just checking the boxes or you're shifting the blame or you're not engaging in the things that you should be engaging in in a genuine, intentional way.
Speaker 2:You really have to be able to accept the fact that I have to always work on this. I have to always be able to stay in a state of righteousness, not only with God, but also with my partner and with myself, because at the end of the day, I know what I'm capable of doing. So if I don't have that level of accountability from other people, then how am I really supposed to navigate this? So when you start seeing the commitment in those things, it will transform the way you behave and the way you engage within your relationship. I think a lot of the times there's a struggle with the emotional aspects of being able to heal because there's so much, there's just been so much damage. Being able to hold space for one another and be able to share from the hurt partner from the betrayer, and just be able to listen and gain a level of understanding. You don't always have to talk back or have a response, just listen.
Speaker 2:Just listen, hold space, you know, and allow it to be a reciprocal relationship when it's reciprocal, not perfect but when it's reciprocal and you feel that your partner is honestly and genuinely showing up. It's not going to be all the time. We're just perfecting our imperfections and we're always going to do that. You'll feel this, it'll show, you'll see it. You will see it and you will feel it.
Speaker 2:It'll be a completely, it'll be a complete transformation to what it was before, and then you'll be able to see like, oh, we did have other areas in our relationship before all this went this way that we weren't engaging in like this. So, it gives you a chance to really level up in having a healthy relationship, having a fulfilled relationship with your partner or your spouse yeah, that must be.
Speaker 1:That must be so great, kendra, to see couples and individuals get to that point when they realize those things right and to be a part of that, um, and even for them as a group, I'm guessing they're seeing this progress and they're encouraging each other and so on, right, yeah, you know one of the. I just saw this interview with another guy I think he's a comedian or some sort of actor of some sort and the interviewer was asking him hey, did your divorce change your relationship with God? So I think he didn't become an atheist, but he kind of distanced himself from god and is just kind of more of an agnostic. And with betrayal, I think a lot of couples kind of enter into the same realm of. You know why did this happen to me? We would go to church, we everything right, we dated for whatever amount of time. So do you see their relationship with God also shift? You know, have you seen people leave their faith because of this? Or maybe it made their faith stronger? Like what have you seen?
Speaker 2:Seen both.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I've seen both and I've seen the ones that have left the church. It's been more so around because the church did not know how to address this type of issue, because the church is not properly prepared and equipped to deal with this type of issue. There's a lot of oh, you need to stay, you need to stay. No, they don't have to stay if they don't want to. We're not called to stay in a relationship where we're continued to be mistreated, we're being cheated on, we're being abused. We're not. God didn't call us to be in that. So you can't really force something upon somebody or try to weaponize.
Speaker 2:I severely dislike when religion is weaponized and held over someone's head when it comes to being in relationships. I really don't like that. So there's been a sense of church hurt when it comes to the couples that have sought out counseling through the church first before they've come to me, and it's been such a negative experience that they struggle with the relationship that they have with God, the relationship that they have with the Christian body. It's just, there's just, it's deep, it's really deep and it's unfortunate. It really is, because when you're not equipped or you don't have the knowledge to really understand, or the research or the background to really be able to address this issue, like I said before, beyond the spiritual scope. You kind of leave people. They're looking to you For answers and you kind of just give them this one and they're not. They're like this doesn't fit us this isn't a one size fits all.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:It's really unfortunate. But then I also have seen when couples have experienced a sense of a miracle reconciliation to where God has been so transformative in this relationship, where both have seen and felt the presence of God, healing individually, teaching them how to like I shared earlier make space for one another emotionally, even when one or the other is struggling, and being able to have a grace and accountability. I've seen both sides and it's such an honor for God to bless me with being able to see that in so many different ways. It doesn't just have to be from Christian couples, it could be couples just in general. Just healing is is amazing, cause I know that it does come from the father, it does come from within, and it's to be able to be in the space to witness it. It's really amazing. It takes time, but I can be able to encourage and motivate and inspire couples that have been in the dark for so long that there is hope.
Speaker 2:Out there, there is light. Just keep pushing forward. You will eventually get there. And to see that and being an outsider looking in and be like no, y'all are doing great. Like yes, you have some bumps in a row, but like, keep doing whatever you're doing because it's working well, I don't feel like well, I don't need you to feel, I need to just keep keep doing because it's not going to essentially feel good, it's not. You're going to feel like you're dying. And what? What do we do within the Christian body? We have to die to our flesh. We have to die over and over and over again and shed all these layers until we come to a sense of acceptance that we are not here for ourselves.
Speaker 2:We are here to be examples of light for other people, and your story can shift somebody else's life. So once you've been able to understand that and accept that you're not going to go through this forever, whether you stay in the relationship or not, you're not going to go through this forever. You're still going to have to do healing, but that healing helps someone. It really will that's so good.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's, that's so awesome. I I really um and thankful that you're in the field and helping couples with that and being able to be a part of, uh, of that process for them. Because, you're right, it is a a very miraculous thing to see the healing piece right, whether it be for the marriage individually. You're right, it is a a very miraculous thing to see the healing piece right, whether it be for the marriage individually, but it's, it's a healing, it's a miracle to witness.
Speaker 1:It is, it's awesome yeah, um, kendra, do you have any final thoughts on just betrayal trauma in general, like a takeaway for the audience? Um regarding betrayal trauma betrayal trauma.
Speaker 2:It doesn't necessarily happen within those intimate relationships. Right, it can be familial, it's true. It can be friendships, being able to set boundaries, set boundaries and being okay with. If this person is not adding to your life, they do not have to stay in your life.
Speaker 2:They have to do the work just as much as you do, but that doesn't mean that you allow yourself to be a dormant and just be used, because what's going to happen is as you continue to grow and heal your level of patience and being able. You can only give so much you can give grace, but there's only so much to where it's just like okay, I think you're taking advantage of me Right, right we teach people to treat us in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so being okay with if you got to let them go, it's okay. You don't owe anybody anything. So being okay with being alone but not lonely.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 1:In whatever relationship it is yeah, so yeah, yeah I. I just want to refer back to, as you were talking about giving space, allowing for emotions to be shared, this true authenticity, just leaving everything out in the open. Um, if we're doing that in a relationship with God, then there should be this transition of can I do this in a relationship with another person, even when they've hurt me? Right, because sometimes we feel that God allowed something to happen, so we pull back, but he still knows what's going on, and so on, right, but I think that was such an important point that you mentioned about everything that we would do in a relationship with God we want to do in our relationship with other people, right, and yeah, I mean, this is such an important topic and I know we've discussed this already, but the next topic or the next episode that we're going to do is on what is this whole process of restoration and redemption look like after betrayal? So we'll talk about that for our next episode. Thank you for being here today.
Speaker 2:Thank you Okay.